The Hobson and Holtz Report - Podcast #65: September 5, 2005

The Hobson and Holtz Report - Podcast #65: September 5, 2005

Content summary: Listeners’ comments discussion (new media, resumes and Googling job seekers; book promotion and blog tours); interviews and reviews; Ray Nagin’s radio interview, Zip 71101 podcast interviews and more Katrina news; new weekly podcast from Steve Rubel and Joseph Jaffe; from our Correspondent Down Under; Darren Barefoot argues that text is better than audio.

Show notes for September 5, 2005

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Welcome to For Immediate Release: The Hobson & Holtz Report, a 76-minute conversation recorded live from Concord, California, USA, and Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

Download the file here (MP3, 30MB), or sign up for the RSS feed to get it and future shows automatically. (For automatic synchronization with your iPod or other digital player, you’ll also need a podcatcher such as the free iPodder, DopplerRadio or iTunes 4.9, or an RSS aggregator that supports podcasts such as FeedDemon).

OPMLShow notes OPML: We’re experimenting with producing concise show notes as an OPML file (download this show’s notes here) that will enable you to have the notes on your own PC, Mac, PDA or other device. To use this file, we suggest trying Dave Winer’s OPML Editor. Let us know if you find this format useful - would you like us to continue doing this?

In this Edition:

Intro:

  • 00:31 Shel introduces the show; what the show’s about; how to give your feedback; what’s in this edition; show notes

Listeners’ comments discussion:

  • 02:46 Nik from Colorado on using new media tools with resumes/CVs when job hunting, Googling job hunters and recruiters, and chapters files for podcasts
  • 14:28 Nicole Simon on book promotion and blog tours

Interviews and Reviews:

Hurricane Katrina News:

  • 21:45 New Orleans mayor Ray Nagin’s radio interview - passion, anger and a call to action: a raw mixture of plain speaking and strong emotion and the contrast with the scripted press conference
  • 31:56 The wide-ranging roles of company intranets and public blogs in hurricane relief efforts
  • 35:38 Zip 71101 - a podcast of on-the-spot interviews with Katrina evacuees
  • 38:46 IABC Cafe discussions on Katrina
  • 41:09 Mapping the devastation - zooming in to the street level with Google Earth and Google Maps

News and Features:

  • 44:40 Across the Sound - Steve Rubel‘s and Joseph Jaffe‘s new weekly podcast on new media and marketing
  • 47:48 From Our Correspondent Down Under - Lee Hopkins: intelligent life and the flying spaghetti monster, the lost art of ink and paper combat, counselling and support for those suffering from post-traumative podcast disorder and other malaises
  • 53:16 Audio and text - is it either or? We discuss Darren Barefoot‘s argument that text is a far better communication medium than podcasts (What do you think?)

Outro:

  • 69:20 Neville outros the show; how to give your feedback; show notes; the music

Links for the blogs, individuals, companies and organizations we discussed or mentioned in the show:

Listeners’ comments discussion - Nik from Colorado, Amazon, Google, AAC file format, iPod, iTunes, Robert French, Andrew Marritt, Nicole Simon.

Interviews and Reviews - Jeremy Wright, Ensight, Blog Marketing, Podcast Solutions, Michael Geoghegan, Dan Klass, Disney, Cliff Atkinson, Beyond Bullet Points, The Virtual Handshake, Return on Customers, Communities Dominate Brands, Alan Moore.

Hurricane Katrina News - Ray Nagin, New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina, President Bush, 9/11, Rudy Giuliani, Wikipedia, Jim Lukach, Siemens USA, WWL, Continental Airlines, Daily Source Code, Zip 71101, Ron Stroope, BBC World, CNN, IABC Cafe, Warren Bickford, Gerard Braud, Google Earth, Google Maps, Charles Pizzo.

News and Features - Across the Sound, Steve Rubel, Joseph Jaffe, Skype, Gizmo, Lee Hopkins, Allan Jenkins, Doug Johnson, Basildon Bond, DIY Planner, Derek Leverington, Podcast Anxiety: a cure has been found, Dawn & Drew Show, Darren Barefoot, Neville’s post: Communication innovation with podcasting, The Conference Board, Lee Hornick, Dan Gillmor, Purina, IBM, GM, FeedBurner, Podshow, Adam Curry, Ron Bloom, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, Sequoia Capital, Odeo, Endurance Radio, Fleet Sports, Gatorade, Geek News Central, GoDaddy.com.

Outro - Garageband.com, The Disappeared, Peter Adams, For Immediate Release, A Shel of My Former Self, NevOn.

If you have comments or questions about this show, or suggestions for our future shows, email us at fircomments@gmail.com, or call the Comment Line at +1 206 984 0931. You can email your comments, questions and suggestions as MP3 file attachments, if you wish (max. 5Mb attachment, please!). We’ll be happy to see how we can include your audio contribution in a show.

So, until Thursday September 8…

Posted by neville on 09/05 at 12:23 PM

  1. You might have told the listener about the post I was referring too, because otherwise my comment does not make a lot of sense. ;)

    Posted by Nicole Simon  on  09/05  at  03:53 PM

  2. On the subject of Darren Barefoot and text versus audio:

    To begin with I was very much in agreement with you guys, that audio provides a great supplement and alternative means of communicating. I find audio makes it a lot easier to get people onside by being able to convey your passion on a given subject.

    It wasn’t until going onto the show notes and clicking onto Darren’s blog that I began to understand his viewpoint. The very fact that I had to do this proved one of his points in a way. His view seems to take two tangents. One focuses on the idea of debate, and that you and he were not on an equal footing because your views are stronger because of the fact they are on the podcast, initially, on one form of media. For Darren to combat that he could either write on the show notes’ comments for an immediate response or he could send an audioclip to you but that would have to wait at least 3 days for airing.

    This seems to me to be his standpoint. Text is to act as the universal equaliser because everyone who reads the initial post can comment back in the same medium in the same place and with minimal delays.

    The second tangent is the issue of audio instead of text. This was proved to be nullified on this specific instance by the fact that it was supplementing existing written material on this conference. When audio does replace text I say it is all about knowing your audience. How do they want to receive it? The show notes you are common state takes a hell of lot of time. If you were to do a transcript of the show it would still take as long to read as it would to listen to. I for one know I’d prefer listening to it.

    One of Darren’s concerns was that it made the authors views stronger than the listeners. I can’t disagree, no matter what, I would struggle to make this textual comment as strong as your verbal words and in a audio comment the delay would surely weaken the impact of my words. To me this isn’t a problem. Your podcast is a comments driven show but it is not a show for mass debate. No one is trying to coerce anyone else in to agreeing to one way is right and one way is wrong. 

    The problem with text is that it forces you to look and that means you are limited to what other task you can do. With audio, when you listen you are not so limited to what other task you can do. For instance, if I read the Hobson and Holtz report, the dishes wouldn’t get done, or I wouldn’t be able to lie back on my leather sofa with eyes resting (possibly with a beer nearby), or even worse I wouldn’t be able to do a good few miles on the treadmill.

    Audio has its place and most podcasts serve it well. Show notes should provide enough searchable material for Google.

    In closing, Darren would appear to a good set of arguments to cause concern over rich media, it’s just that they don’t apply as much when given the full context of how the media is used and who for.

    Posted by Dan Hill  on  09/06  at  11:52 AM

  3. Thanks for your thoughts, Dan.

    I suppose my answer to this issue is simple: Why does everything always have to be equal? The flaw in Darren’s logic is his seeming belief that, because podcasts are delivered via the Net, they need to be equally democratic as other web-based channels. Podcasts are unquestionably recorded audio files; we all know that. And while Neville and I can work hard to make our show into a conversation with our listeners, we’ll always have a stronger voice than our listeners (unless they start their own podcasts or write about us on their blogs). But as I keep trying to help him understand, podcasting is not simply an alternative medium to text, but rather a unique medium in its own right. The lack of equal two-way communication is just an inherent part of the medium. It should be used where its strengths provide benefits that outweigh the detriments…which, we believe, in our case it does. The conversation between Neville and me is intriguing enough to most people that they don’t mind not being able to participate in a two-way conversation.

    Posted by Shel Holtz  on  09/06  at  01:34 PM

  4. Exactly. It is not blog OR podcast OR personal speaking OR phone call etc.

    It is the right tool at the right place. And if all I can use is a phone, well, then I will just use a phone.

    I for example see absolutly no need for video - for myself. But I do like screencasts - which is just that. Video. But it is about the tools and how we use them - and accept other using other tools too.

    Posted by Nicole Simon  on  09/07  at  05:12 AM

  5. I’ve only recently started tuning in to FIR and am impressed that you’ve done 65 shows already. Since you asked for comments, I’m providing some.

    First, on the iPod statistics: I personally use a cheap Chinese MP3 player and download the show through iPodder. However, I tried Odeo for a while, and Odeo makes use of iTunes, so you can be pretty sure that not all your iTunes subscribers have iPods.

    Second, I love the idea of a book tour via blogs, so thank you for mentioning it; I’m going to investigate it further. (As someone whose business is turning other people into authors, I’m always interested in hearing about new book marketing strategies.)

    Writing those show notes must take you longer than recording the show—they are very impressive.

    Finally, on the speech-versus-text debate: the auditory learners of the world (about 30% of the population) must be rejoicing at the podcast boom. I’m actually visually oriented myself, and a professional writer on top of it, but I’m an absolute podcast junkie, and there are even some books I prefer to listen to rather than read.

    I listen to podcasts when I’m driving or doing something else with my hands and eyes which would prevent me from reading, like cooking dinner or sorting laundry. Indeed, I listen to them while grocery shopping and running errands, though I feel slightly guilty and rude for doing so, and occasionally concerned about the isolation created by wearing earbuds. No doubt I’d be safer on the road if I got one of those devices to connect my MP3 player to my car stereo. There’s one for your podcast syndrome collection: podcast solipsism, the refusal to believe that the world outside the podcast exists.

    Posted by Sallie Goetsch (rhymes with "sketch")  on  09/07  at  05:13 AM

  6. Another very nice show gentlemen. Good discussion on the comments of Ray Nagin. He definitely got a message of desperation across. The Nagin radio interview will surely be controversial (and studied by communicators) for years to come.

    Your comparison of the approaches between President Bush and Ray Nagin is extremely relevant. Both styles can be effective depending on the person’s situation and the events unfolding around them. For some reason our high level political leaders feel the need to cater to the press and provide a sanitized environment for delivering messages.

    Is there a place for raw emotion in communication between government and the public? Being that citizens are all human, I certainly hope so.

    Posted by Rob S  on  09/08  at  06:14 AM

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