Tuesday, April 12, 2005

Interview: James Cherkoff and Johnnie Moore on Open Source Marketing - April 12, 2005

In this first of our new series of For Immediate Release podcast interviews, separate from our “Hobson & Holtz Report” bi-weekly podcasts, Shel and I enjoyed a 35-minute conversation with James Cherkoff and Johnnie Moore about open source marketing.

Download the conversation here (MP3, 14.6MB), or sign up for the RSS feed to get it and our future shows automatically. (For automatic synchronization with your iPod or other digital player, you’ll also need software such as the FeedDemon RSS aggregator, or the free ipodder or DopplerRadio).

About our conversation partners:

James Cherkoff was an Associate Director at Burson-Marsteller, the global marketing consultancy, where he ran communications programmes for Phillip Morris, Unilever and Accenture. He was then a Director of a London based web consultancy. He now specialises in supporting companies develop marketing plans that suit the new marketing environment.

Johnnie Moore has worked in marketing and branding for more than 20 years, for clients ranging from financial services to education. He’s also trained in a range of facilitation and counselling techniques which he uses for creative team building and coaching work.

Download MP3 podcast

Interview Segment Time Points:

  • 01:08 James introduces the concepts of open source marketing as published is his Open Source Marketing manifesto, available from ChangeThis
  • 06:08 James - new concepts are moving to authenticity and transparency in the new marketing environment
  • 07:15 Johnnie on fear and the flip side of excitement - more people are getting switched on
  • 09:52 Johnnie - opening up the marketing spectrum: the two ends of consumer participation
  • 11:03 Shel asks what is the role of the marketer? Creating engagement? Coordinating messages?
  • 11:26 Johnnie on the shift of mindset in marketing people - from agent to facilitator
  • 12:37 Johnnie - you can’t control what consumers do, only influence them; marketing is not turning on its head
  • 13:31 Shel asks about the Volkswagen terrorist commercial - where does the organization wield its influence?
  • 14:06 James  - you can’t stop this happening; discusses other campaigns; encouraging things to happen; involving customers with brands
  • 17:06 Neville asks about the recent Nike commercial - does such a ‘citizen advertising’ concept fit into the open source marketing concept?
  • 17:36 James - traditional marketing mindset doesn’t think much of consumers; the Converse Gallery and getting customers involved - you can feel the energy; be a brand host not a brand guardian
  • 20:30 Neville asks what do you think about fake blogs such as Captain Morgan Rum? Is it a trend?
  • 21:10 Johnnie - companies on a steep learning curve, early efforts may fail; you learn as you go - the customers also influence you; fake ones will fall by the wayside
  • 22:31 Neville asks what role fake, or ‘character’, blogs would have in the new marketing model?
  • 23:17 Johnnie - don’t focus on the technology, far more important are the effects of the technology - to create markets which are transparent and authentic, where consumers have greater control
  • 24:32 Shel asks how the ideals of open source software development relate to open source marketing, as the manifesto states - is the role of the marketer like the central authority in the open source software developer community?
  • 25:26 James - open source creates less structure and more freedom; it’s not an either/or thing - less structure is more effective than more structure; if you’re responsible for marketing, then one of your roles is to be the ‘host’ and hold things together
  • 26:13 Shel - so you’re not advocating anarchy where anybody can produce anything they want?
  • 26:22 James on moving from 50 years of command-and-control marketing heritage can produce reactions of ‘this is anarchy’; it applies the old rules to the new environment
  • 27:43: Neville on parallels with the PR industry and the need to educate people in the new ways of thinking - is that part of the Open Sauce Live events you both do?
  • 28:58 Johnnie on the Open Sauce Live workshops, exercises from improv theatre
  • 30:25 Neville asks how is response to these events?
  • 30:44 Johnnie and James - we’re pleased! Example of last week’s event
  • 31:47 Shel asks about the balance between open source and traditional marketing - not a complete abandonment of traditional marketing?
  • 32:11 James on the emperor’s clothes are gone, the 30-second TV ad slot has come to the end of its natural life; many values are being taken offline, eg, Mercedes consumer photos campaign

Links for the brands, individuals and companies we discussed or mentioned in the conversation:

Bittorrent, GE, Robert Scoble, Volkswagen USA, Budweiser, Anheuser-Busch, South Park, Nike, Joseph Jaffe, Angel Delight, Converse Gallery, Captain Morgan Rum blog, GM FastLane Blog, Steve Rubel, Open Sauce Live, John Naisbitt, Procter & Gamble, Mercedes-Benz.

Further examples of open source marketing - http://del.icio.us/opensaucelive

Posted by neville on 04/12 at 01:43 PM
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Monday, April 11, 2005

The Hobson & Holtz Report - Podcast #23: April 11, 2005

Content summary: Listeners’ comments (podcasters’ and bloggers’ credibility on reporting information; what’s your favourite tool for conductng a communications audit and why?; on not liking listening to Catholic Insider; another perspective on the Gomery inquiry in Canada); blog aggregators, attribution and copyright; video news releases re-visited; organization turf wars on who owns branding; General Motors, the LA Times and the GM blog; IABC blog relaunch looking good; EFF guide to anonymous blogging; podcast and blog at the Marriott Courtyard; the world’s first wi-fi train service, maybe or not.

Show notes for April 11, 2005

Download MP3 podcast

Welcome to For Immediate Release: The Hobson & Holtz Report, a 75-minute conversation recorded live from Concord, California, USA, and Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

Download the file here (MP3, 30MB), or sign up for the RSS feed to get it and future shows automatically. (For automatic synchronization with your iPod or other digital player, you’ll also need software such as the FeedDemon RSS aggregator, or the free ipodder or DopplerRadio).

In this edition:

Intro:

  • 00:31 Shel and Neville on what’s in this week’s show; how to give your feedback; show notes
  • 01:52 Comments from the last show including 1 from the Comment Line and 1 MP3

Features:

  • 22:50 Aggregating blog content, attribution of authorship and copyright -
  • 42:32 VNRs revisited - attribution and who has the obligations for transparency
  • 45:37 Branding - turf wars between advertising, marketing and PR departments

Short Takes:

Outro:

  • 70:12 Show notes; how to give your feedback; interview coming up with James Cherkoff and Johnnie Moore on Tuesday 12 April; about the music and the band; outro music

Links for the blogs, individuals, companies and organizations we discussed or mentioned in the show:

Intro - Richard Rowan, Lee Hopkins, Sebastian Keil, iRiver 799, Pew Internet & American Life Project, Adam Curry, Pew Charitable Trusts, National Public Radio, Pew Research, Nielsen, TechDirt, Darren Barefoot, Tudor Williams, Angela Sinickas, Mercer, Alex Bellinger, Smallbizpod blog, David Frost, Glenn Watson, Skype, iPressRoom, David Satterfield, Andy Lark, Elizabeth Weise, Eric Schwartzman, Media Relations 2005 Conference, Catholic Insider, Podcast Alley, Todd Cochran, Dan York, Gomery Commission, Captain’s Quarters, BBC News report ‘Scandal anger mounts in Canada.’

Features - Constantin Basturea, The New PR Wiki, PR Blog Watch, Don Crowther’s 101 Public Relations, Google AdSense, Steve Rubel, Creative Commons, BL Ochman, Yahoo! News RSS feeds, Lawrence Lessig, Jonathan Marks, Informitv.com, BBC creative archive project, British Film Institute, Kevin Dugan, Alice Marshall, Marc Snyder, Matthew Podboy, Colin Mackay, Web Pro News, Fredrik Wacka, IEntry, PR Perspective, Google, Philipp Lenssen, Headlines from PR Weblogs, Video Monitoring Services, ABC’s World News Tonight, Judith Phair, PRSA, PR Tactics, Tom Robinson, Advertising Age, Allergan.

Short Takes - General Motors, Los Angeles Times, Dan Neil, GM FastLane Blog, PubSub, Dukes of Hazzard, Hot Wheels Blog, C2IT, David King, International Motor Press Association, IABC Café, Warren Bickford, Robert Holland, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Apple, Marriott Courtyard, Steve Rubel’s post on Marriott Courtyard, Daily Telegraph, Southern Railway, T-Mobile, WiMax, Stuart Bruce, GNER, The Register, Caltrain, Lufthansa, City of Philadelphia, Hotspot Amsterdam.

Outro - James Cherkoff, Johnnie Moore, Garageband.com, Daddy-O, New Tonal Directions, For Immediate Release, A Shel of My Former Self, NevOn.

If you have comments or questions about this show, or suggestions for our future shows, email us at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), or call the Comment Line at +1 206 984 0931. You can email your comments, questions and suggestions as MP3 file attachments, if you wish (max. 5Mb attachment, please!). We’ll be happy to see how we can include your audio contribution in a show.

So, until Thursday April 14…

Posted by neville on 04/11 at 01:09 PM
(2) Comments • Permalink

Thursday, April 07, 2005

The Hobson & Holtz Report - Podcast #22: April 7, 2005

Content summary: Listeners’ comments (employee monitoring and performance; don’t write off podcasting; time-shifted podcasting, cars and home PCs; more on VNRs and responsibility, and audio search; smoking the podcasting dope down under); political scandal in Canada and media muzzling; update your crisis communications plans; Pew’s lost credibility; Macaw Nederland’s employee bloggers; IABC Café launches.

Show notes for April 7, 2005

Download MP3 podcast

Welcome to For Immediate Release: The Hobson & Holtz Report, a 71-minute conversation recorded live from Concord, California, USA, and Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

Download the file here (MP3, 30MB), or sign up for the RSS feed to get it and future shows automatically. (For automatic synchronization with your iPod or other digital player, you’ll also need software such as the FeedDemon RSS aggregator, or the free ipodder or DopplerRadio).

In this edition:

Intro:

  • 00:28 Shel and Neville on what’s in this week’s show; how to give your feedback; show notes; interview coming up with James Cherkoff and Johnnie Moore on Tuesday 12 April
  • 02:05 Comments from the last show including 6 from the Comment Line

Features:

  • 35:50 Payola in Canada - the Gomery Commission, media muzzling, US bloggers and bringing down the government.
  • 46:44 Crisis communications - why the plan you created a year ago is already out of date

Short Takes:

  • 53:28 Pew Internet has a crisis of credibility and trust following podcasting stats fiasco
  • 56:24 Blogging the workplace - Macaw Nederland at the leading edge
  • 60:58 IABC Café - the relaunched IABC Chair blog gets off to a cracking start

Outro:

  • 66:34 Show notes; how to give your feedback; “editor’s note”; about the music and the band; outro music

Links for the blogs, individuals, companies and organizations we discussed or mentioned in the show:

Intro - James Cherkoff, Johnnie Moore, Craig Jolley, Robert French, Podcast Alley, Geek News Central, GM FastLane Blog, Bud Gibson, SXSW, iPod, Skype, Stuart Henshall, Audacity, Josh Hallett, Wired, F1 Magazine, National Geographic, PC World, Dan York, VON, Lee Hopkins, The Doobie Brothers, Lovin’ Spoonful, 10CC, Internet Explorer.

Features - Tudor Williams, Gomery Commission, Canadian Liberal Party, AdScam, Ed Morrissey’s Captain’s Quarters, John Dvorak, Jean Brault, Toronto Star, Michael Napier’s The Blue Maple Leaf, Deep Throat, Watergate, Brian Kilgore, Parti Quebecois, GroupAction, Toronto Sun, Judge Gomery, New Communications Forum 2005, Wendy’s, Technorati search Wendys+finger, Kryptonite bike lock, Eason Jordan, CNN, BigHa lasers, PubSub, Technorati, Intelliseek.

Short Takes - Pew Internet & American Life Project, TechDirt, Fredrik Wacka, Macaw Nederland, Blogger, .ASPNet, Charlene Li, Forrester Research, Intel, IBM, ING, IABC Café, David Kistle, Warren Bickford, Allan Jenkins, Eric Eggertson, O’Dwyer, Jeremy Pepper, BL Ochman, Steve Rubel, Pete Shinbach, Edelman/Intelliseek blog report, Charlene Li blog presentation video, Firefox.

Outro - Judy Gombita, PodcastNYC, DealbreakeR, For Immediate Release, A Shel of My Former Self, NevOn.

If you have comments or questions about this show, or suggestions for our future shows, email us at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), or call the Comment Line at +1 206 984 0931. You can email your comments, questions and suggestions as MP3 file attachments, if you wish (max. 5Mb attachment, please!). We’ll be happy to see how we can include your audio contribution in a show.

So, until Monday April 11…

Posted by neville on 04/07 at 12:53 PM
Show Notes • (3) Comments • Permalink

Monday, April 04, 2005

The Hobson & Holtz Report - Podcast #21: April 4, 2005

Content summary: Listeners’ comments: podcast annotating, indexing and navigating; running VNRs and press releases is shoddy journalism; mainstream media is not the way to go with youth messaging; searching blog feeds for photos, audio and video; Print media will still be around for a while; Darren Barefoot’s not smoking the podcasting dope; Catholic Insider at the Vatican; Jakob Nielsen and URL visibility; IABC Chair blog relaunching; preparing for Global PR Blog Week 2.0; Upcoming interview.

Show notes for April 4, 2005

Download MP3 podcast

Welcome to For Immediate Release: The Hobson & Holtz Report, a 72-minute conversation recorded live from Concord, California, USA, and Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

Download the file here (MP3, 30.4MB), or sign up for the RSS feed to get it and future shows automatically. (For automatic synchronization with your iPod or other digital player, you’ll also need software such as the FeedDemon RSS aggregator, or the free ipodder or DopplerRadio).

In this edition:

Intro:

  • 00:29 Shel and Neville on what’s in this week’s show; how to give your feedback; show notes
  • 02:43 Comments from the last show

Features:

  • 11:03 Digital media supplanting printed media - Canadian survey says no, US survey says yes; electronic ‘books’
  • 25:26 Darren Barefoot‘s not smoking the podcasting dope - Here’s why he should be; Catholic Insider podcasting from the Vatican

Short Takes:

  • 50.58 Web usability guru Jakob Nielsen responds to Shel’s post on URL visibility
  • 56:36 IABC Chair blog to relaunch on 6 April. Can it become the place to engage with communicators?
  • 60:23 Global PR Blog Week 2.0 now in preparation. Do you want to be part of it?

Outro:

  • 65:30 Upcoming interview Tuesday April 5 - James Cherkoff and Johnnie Moore on open source marketing
  • 66:35 Show notes; how to give your feedback; about the music and the band; outro music

Links for the blogs, individuals, companies and organizations we discussed or mentioned in the show:

Intro - Uri Levanon, Annodex, Dan York, Peter West, Chris Ritke, 49media.com.

Features - Judy Gombita, Marketing Daily, Washington Post, US Online Publishers Association survey, Brian Kilgore, 17, Cosmo Girl, Allure, Cosmopolitan, The Times, Independent, PC World, Business Week, Business 2.0, Wired, PARC, Jakob Nielsen, Darren Barefoot on podcasting, Adam Curry, FCC, Catholic Insider, Roderick Vonhogen, Podcast Alley, Bob Edwards, Endurance Radio, Emile Borquin, Dawn & Drew Show, Rock & Roll Geek Show, GM FastLane Blog, Eric Rice, Warner Bros, Autoblog, Volvo, PEW Internet podcasting survey, iPod, Associations Unorthodox, Podcast Brothers, Gatorade, Silicon Valley Watcher, Tom Foremski, Nielsen Norman Group, David Berlind, ZD Net, Internet Explorer, IABC Chair Blog, David Kistle, Warren Bickford, IABC Memberspeak, Allan Jenkins, Global PR Blog Week 1.0, Global PR Blog Week 2.0, PR blogger directory on Bloglines, Constantin Basturea, The New PR Wiki, Elizabeth Albrycht.

Outro - James Cherkoff, Johnnie Moore, ChangeThis, Open Sauce Live, Garageband.com, BB Chung King & The Buddaheads, Company Graveyard, For Immediate Release, A Shel of My Former Self, NevOn.

If you have comments or questions about this show, or suggestions for our future shows, email us at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), or call the Comment Line at +1 206 984 0931. You can email your comments, questions and suggestions as MP3 file attachments, if you wish (max. 5Mb attachment, please!). We’ll be happy to see how we can include your audio contribution in a show.

So, until Thursday April 7…

Posted by neville on 04/04 at 12:15 PM
(1) Comments • Permalink

Thursday, March 31, 2005

The Hobson & Holtz Report - Podcast #20: March 31, 2005

Content summary: Listeners’ comments: audio comments and a few written ones, too, on VNRs, multimedia search, and new blogs; Elizabeth Albrycht’s advice column; Nielsen-Norman’s top 10 intranets; Microsoft’s newly named stripped-down Windows XP for Europe; new bloggers at GM’s Fastlane blog; Yahoo 360; faux blogs; and monitoring employees’ onliine behavior.

Show notes for March 31, 2005

Download MP3 podcast

Welcome to For Immediate Release: The Hobson & Holtz Report, a 63-minute conversation recorded live from Los Angeles, California, USA, and the UK.

Download the file here (MP3, 28MB), or sign up for the RSS feed to get it and future shows automatically. (For automatic synchronization with your iPod or other digital player, you’ll also need software such as the FeedDemon RSS aggregator, or the free ipodder or DopplerRadio).

In this edition:

Intro:

  • 00:29 Shel on what’s in this week’s show; how to give your feedback; show notes
  • 02:01 Comments from the last show

Features:

  • 28:36 Elizabeth Albrycht’s new blog advice column
  • 29:53 Nielsen-Norman’s 2005 top 10 intranet listing
  • 35:29 Microsoft and the EU settle on a new name for Windows XP in Europe
  • 35:29 New executives are blogging to the General Motors Fastlane blog
  • 39:50 Yahoo launches Yahoo 360
  • 44:34 Faux blogs
  • 47:49 Employee monitoring

Outro:

  • 58:07 Comments and show notes reminder

Music:

If you have comments or questions about this show, or suggestions for our future shows, email us at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), or call the Comment Line at +1 206 984 0931. You can email your comments, questions and suggestions as MP3 file attachments, if you wish (max. 5Mb attachment, please!). We’ll be happy to see how we can include your audio contribution in a show.

So, until Thursday March 31…

Click “More” to read Carl Rogat’s e-mail about multimedia search.

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Posted by shel on 03/31 at 01:11 PM
Show Notes • (2) Comments • Permalink

Monday, March 28, 2005

The Hobson & Holtz Report - Podcast #19: March 28, 2005

Content summary: Listeners’ comments: keep it up, ego boosting and a listening experience; video news releases and responsibilities; relying or not on third-party web services; new tool for tracking where a conversation goes; the Disney mouse that roared; asking the blogosphere for input on policy; the risks of writing and posting without due diligence.

Show notes for March 28, 2005

Download MP3 podcast

Welcome to For Immediate Release: The Hobson & Holtz Report, a 70-minute conversation recorded live from Concord, California, USA, and Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

Download the file here (MP3, 28MB), or sign up for the RSS feed to get it and future shows automatically. (For automatic synchronization with your iPod or other digital player, you’ll also need software such as the FeedDemon RSS aggregator, or the free ipodder or DopplerRadio).

In this edition:

Intro:

  • 00:29 Shel and Neville on what’s in this week’s show; how to give your feedback; show notes
  • 02:01 Comments from the last show

Features:

  • 06:50 Video news releases - The responsibilities of producers and broadcasters, and trusting the news you watch on TV
  • 19:06 Using third-party tools and web services - How much can you rely on them? How much should you?
  • 27:48 Blogpulse conversation tracker - Now you can see and track where a story spreads in the blogosphere
  • 34:28 PR and building relationships - A missed opportunity for the Walt Disney Company
  • 44:48 Blogging policies in the workplace - Thomas Nelson Publishers asks the blogosphere for input and comments
  • 54:12 The responsibilities and obligations of bloggers, and the risks of posting without checking

Outro:

  • 64:41 Shel only on Thursday’s show; how to give your feedback; show notes; about the music and the band; outro music

Links for the blogs, individuals, companies and organizations we discussed or mentioned in the show:

Intro - Morgan McLintic, Chris Thilk, Dan York, iTrip, iPod, Frederick Gilbert, iPodder.

Features - New York Times, Jay Rosen, Ketchumgate, BBC, BBC World, Boston University Journalism School, del.icio.us, Blogrolling, TypePad, Technorati searchlet beta, Freepolls, Technorati, Dave Sifry, Zoomerang, Blogpulse conversation tracker, Steve Rubel, Jeremy Wright, Politech, Boing Boing, MSNBC, AP, CNET, Kryptonite bike lock, eWatch, Cybervalence, PubSub, Walt Disney Company, Jim Hill, SaveDisney.com, Pixar, The Blog Herald, Michael Hyatt, Thomas Nelson Publishers, Tom Reynolds, London Ambulance Service, Hart Scientific, Charlene Li, Forrester Research, Google, Mark Jen, Technology Review, Wired News, Web Pro News, Jayson Blair, Vanity Fair, Wall Street, Journal, Financial Times.

Outro - Tourist, Garageband.com, Jacob’s Ladder, For Immediate Release, A Shel of My Former Self, NevOn.

If you have comments or questions about this show, or suggestions for our future shows, email us at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address), or call the Comment Line at +1 206 984 0931. You can email your comments, questions and suggestions as MP3 file attachments, if you wish (max. 5Mb attachment, please!). We’ll be happy to see how we can include your audio contribution in a show.

So, until Thursday March 31…

Posted by neville on 03/28 at 12:31 PM
(2) Comments • Permalink

Saturday, March 26, 2005

An Open Conversation with Steve Rubel, Micro Persuasion

Last Monday 21 March, Shel and I interviewed Steve Rubel for The Hobson & Holtz Report bi-weekly podcast.

Steve is Vice President Client Solutions at CooperKatz, a New York PR firm, and author of the Micro Persuasion blog. He is arguably the most prominent and influential blogger in the PR profession either side of the Atlantic.

We enjoyed a stimulating and wide-ranging 45-minute conversation that covered many topical issues, including blogging as an integral element of the practice of public relations; the General Motors blogs; the growing importance and significance of tags and folksonomies; influence, celebrity and responsibility; ethics and the public relations profession; and whether Steve wears pyjamas when he blogs.

You can download the show containing the interview (MP3, 30.8Mb) and subscribe to the RSS feed to receive future shows automatically.

To complement the podcast, the following is a complete transcript of our conversation. As a transcript, it has no editing nor editorializing - it’s the raw conversation including all the ums and ahs, reflecting what happened in our conversation.

One thing words on a page can’t convey is the emotion and humour of our conversation. We all had a lot of fun doing this interview! The sense of that comes across best by listening to it.

Here’s the transcript:

Shel: Well, Steve, thanks for joining us, we really appreciate your taking the time. And, just to start with, can you tell us how things are going with your blog - any changes planned, any developments?

Steve: Heh! Should there be? Um, no, I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing, blogging like a madman, and, er, what I’m trying to do is really, I want to shake the tree because I think that PR professionals need to really, you know, get what’s going on here and jump on board and I think that the three of us and the other 97 of us who currently blog in the PR industry, we need to do a better job of talking to the everyday PR man or woman and what it means to them.

Because I think a little bit of what we’re doing now is talking amongst ourselves, and talking amongst the people who do get it in social media land. Actually, in mainstream media land as well, as you know, with the different opportunities we get to talk to the press. But I think we need to get everyone on board.

I spoke at the Council of PR Firms meeting in Chicago last week, and I talked about RSS and using Bloglines and things like that. I think that’s something that we, everyone of us, needs to take responsibility for in getting, you know, somebody in their agency, at their competitor, at their clients, wherever, understanding what RSS is, what blogs are and what this all means, because I think we have a lot more work to do there.

MORE...

Posted by neville on 03/26 at 10:17 PM
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